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Document number: 8820
Date: 15 Apr 1864
Recipient: SHADBOLT George
Author: TALBOT William Henry Fox
Collection: Royal Photographic Society Coll, National Media Museum, Bradford
Last updated: 29th August 2012

[fragment?]

[draft:]

Shadbolt
Apr 15 64

I thk y for the early insertn of my ppr, in the p No of yr Journal. I he just recd, as well as for the friendly remarks wch you have added at the conclusn & now will y allow me to trouble y. wth anor enquiry, also bearing upon the History of discoveries in Photy

Your last present no contains a remarkably interestg & well writtn memoir by Mr Swan, upon his new mode of Carbon printing - In the course of this paper I note the follg passage

Now what are the real facts of the case? In 1839 Mr Ponton discd & publishd the fact tht paper washd wth bich. of pot. & then dried, was sensve to light, a photographic image was can be obtaind on the paper, & this cd be fixed by washg wth water, the water removing the brichrom fm those ports of th paper on which light had not actd -

After this This expt was repeated by myself & most other experimenters, at the time it was published.

Nothing more of any importance was done for 14 years, in this departmt of Photogrphy

At the But in the years 1852 - 53 I took up the subject of photc engrvg, & after trying 1 or 2 methods - quite difft & wch yeilded results more curious than practically useful, I it occurrd to me 1 day to try whether bichr. of pot. [illegible deletion] were capable of being mixd wth gelatine, without decomposing percipg the latter, or being itself decomposed; or deoxygenatd - I found tht it could, & tht a film of the mixture when dried, & expd to light, became insoluble in water - fm wch fact I deduced the my process of photographic engravg I sent this to the Fce Acdy of Science to be I published it this in the Comptes Rendus, the date being I believe April 53 - I press gave it as a new discovery, dep This proof of bichrom mixd wth gel. & rendd insoluble by light, I gave as a new discovery, fully believing it to be so, & it was so acceptd in France & I know that it revolutionized the business of several photc printers who shrewdly adopted it, for a cheap & speedy mode of carbon printg intended to suspend lithography when further copies were wantd of any notice? or circular? A Paris manufacturer thanked me formally for it not vy lng ago 2 yrs ago saying [blank left here]

But in sevl modern publicatns I am deprived of all credit for this discovy, wch is given to Mr Ponton who to the best of my belief never wrote a word on the subject - But I believe that all these writers copy one from the other - Now, the object of my enquiry is to ask y. whether y are aware of any statement publicatn either by Ponton or any one else, prior to Apr 53 - wch contains this discovery - in wch case I shall am of course ready to resign it to the earlier experimenter who ever he may be,

Shadbolt 2

but if no one passage can be found, then it is hard tht I shd be deprived of the credit of the wch is the basis of all the modern methods of Photo lithograph engrag & carbon printg - This is merely a private enquiry wch I beg leave to make, [illegible deletion] thinking tht 1 who has so much knowledge of the Statutory Law can easily a without difficulty, ansr the enquiry

K} Can y kindly oblige me by asking Mr Swan of Newcastle with whom I presume You are in correspondce, wr th if he cd giv me 1 or 2 specimens (unmounted) of his new mode of carbon printg, for the purpose of testing trying whether they are applicable to photoglyphic Engraving Shd such be the case There would be Arise at once a new & vy interesting application of his discovy -

I enclose a triflg specimen of this mode of engraving, such as can be done Even in cloudy weather. It is fm a glass photogr The origl photograph is on glass; paper photographs seldom give satisfacty results, at least the finer details are usually lost.

[expanded version:]

Shadbolt
April 15, 1864

I thank you for the early insertion of my paper, in the pages Number of your Journal <1> I have just received, as well as for the friendly remarks which you have added at the conclusion and now will y allow me to trouble you with another enquiry, also bearing upon the History of discoveries in Photography.

Your last present number contains a remarkably interesting and well written memoir by Mr Swan, upon his new mode of Carbon printing - In the course of this paper I note the following passage

[Perhaps WHFT intended to insert the information later, but it is almost certain that a leaf or more of text is presently missing from the draft, especially considering the orphaned insertion "K" at the end of the document.]

Now what are the real facts of the case? In 1839 Mr Ponton discovered and published the fact that paper washed with bichromate of potash and then dried, was sensitive to light, a photographic image was can be obtained on the paper, and this could be fixed by washing with water, the water removing the bichromate from those potions of the paper on which light had not acted -

After this This experiment was repeated by myself and most other experimenters, at the time it was published.

Nothing more of any importance was done for fourteen years, in this department of Photography.

At the But in the years 1852-1853 I took up the subject of photographic engraving, and after trying one or two methods - quite difficult and which yielded results more curious than practically useful, I it occurred to me one day to try whether bichromate of potash [illegible deletion] were capable of being mixed with gelatine, without decomposing precipitating the latter, or being itself decomposed; or deoxygenated - I found that it could, and that a film of the mixture when dried, and exposed to light, became insoluble in water - from which fact I deduced the my process of photographic engraving. I sent this to the French Academy of Science to be I published it this in the Comptes Rendus, the date being I believe April 1853 - I presently gave it as a new discovery, depositing This process of bichromate mixed with gelatine and made insoluble by light, I gave as a new discovery, fully believing it to be so, and it was so accepted in France and I know that it revolutionized the business of several photographic printers who shrewdly adopted it, for a cheap and speedy mode of carbon printing intended to supercede lithography when further copies were wanted of any notice? or circular? A Paris manufacturer thanked me formally for it not (very long ago) (two years ago) saying

But in several modern publications I am deprived of all credit for this discovery, which is given to Mr Ponton <2> who to the best of my belief never wrote a word on the subject - But I believe that all these writers copy one from the other- Now, the object of my enquiry is to ask you whether you are aware of any statement publication either by Ponton or any one else, prior to April 1853 - which contains this discovery - in which case I shall am of course ready to resign it to the earlier experimenter who ever he may be, but if no one passage can be found, then it is hard that I should be deprived of the credit of the which is the basis of all the modern methods of Photographic lithography, engraving and carbon printing - This is merely a private enquiry which I beg leave to make, [illegible deletion] thinking that one who has so much knowledge of the Statutory Law can easily a without difficulty, answer the enquiry.

K} Can you kindly oblige me by asking Mr Swan of Newcastle with whom I presume You are in correspondence, whether the if he could give me one or specimens (unmounted) of his new mode of carbon printing, for the purpose of testing trying whether they are applicable to Photoglyphic Engraving. Should such be the case, there would be arise at once a new and very interesting application of his discovery -

I enclose a trifling specimen of this mode of engraving, such as can be done Even in cloudy weather. It is from a glass photogr The original photograph is on glass; paper photographs seldom give satisfacty results, at least the finer details are usually lost.


Notes:

1. This was WHFT's letter of 31 March 1864 [see Doc. No: 07030], published as 'The First Use of Bromine in Photography', British Journal of Photography, v. 11 no. 212, 15 April 1864, pp. 127-128. The present draft was not published in the Journal - the next WHFT letter published in the series was his 5 December 1864, 'On Photography Without the Use of Silver', BJP, v. 11 no. 240, 9 December 1864, pp. 494-495. This is Doc. No: 08909.

2. Mungo Ponton (1802-1880), announced that potassium bichromate was rendered insoluble by the action of light and proposed making images by this method in a paper given before the Scottish Society of Arts, 29 May 1839.

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